Gods, Angels, Wizards and Fae Musing

Just me playing with some ideas. Gods, angels, wizards and fae are the big supernatural beings of the setting; the guys who can understand and manipulate big fundemental forces. I'd like to tie them together a bit more tightly, make the relationships between them a little clearer.

Current status quo:

Gods weild Natural Magick and have pure blue auras.
Fae weild Faerie Magic and have iridescent auras. They are Without.
Wizards weild Words of Power and have blue streaked auras. They can become Without if their staff is broken.
Angels also weild Words of Power and have gold auras.

I'm not wild on the current origin of gods. It feel clunky and introduces Natural Magick with no real origin. I'd like people who aren't me and Rob to speak up and say, in their own words, what they feel small-g-gods ought to be. Some ideas to get us started, though possibilities are by no means limited to these.

1. "God-type xenoform" is an Agency term referring to extremely powerful xenoforms with a large range of supernatual powers. Many such god-type xenoforms are also sorcerers, wizards and/or psychics. (This was my original plan)
2. "Gods" are a group of angels who sided with neithe Lucifer nor God.
3. "Gods" are a unique kind of being, seperate from mortals, xenoforms, ghosts, angels, psychics, fae, etc. Possibly related to Big-G-God. Empowered by faith, capable of granting supernatural powers to their priests. (I believe this is Rob's favored approach, but if I've got it wrong, put me right)
4. A "god" is any supernatural being who accepts, demands or requests worship in exchange for supernatural intervention; i.e. "miracles"". This definition includes some xenoforms, some ghosts, some sorcerers, some fae, some psychics, some Rebel Angels and Big-G-God himself.(I think this is the option I'm coming to favour)

This is Phil, I cant remember how to maek with the purple. I favour, I think 4. But then my idea for gods is basicly that faith, generates power. and a 'god' is just anything which gets enough faith from peaple to manifest this power. I dont know WHY this happens, I'm sure steave can have a feild day working out that one. It Raises some interesting principals.
I made your text purple Phil. I will add faith=power to my seemingly never ending attempt to write the metaphysics of the Hughniverse. I would prefer gods' power to be innate with the faith of followers providing power indirectly by merely constituting a mundane power base together with a small army of magick users of varying degrees of power. I am for 4. with them mostly being 1.

1/ Chicken and Egg. Can enough "Faith" in some -thing- actually create a god, or must you have a suitably carasmatic being in place to begin with to reaceave the faith.
2/ This makes THE LORD 's only real diffence to other god's is that he has billons and billions of followers, and thus, the most prayer power to manifest as miricals and whatnot.

The convention that I understood was that there is a distinction between the divine and the material-though-magickal, and hence God should operate differently to gods (except for perhaps angels operating as gods if we go by 4.).

The Realy faithfull then, get to weild a small chunk of there gods power, as represented with the "True Faith" advantage, this is a kind of Feedback loop. Should we have diffrent "True Faith" packages for diffrent gods, or is it the case that beings of darkness are repelled by -faith- at a concept, rather then by the power of THE LORD. If so, can they be driven back by faith in other things. Like Communism (this happened in doctor who once)

I agree with stv. This would also make the Master Church's story more credible. Big G God should be different as he the source of the power, not merely a freeloading wielder. I also view him as being basically uncaring regarding the universe at large save for the bit of stopping the machinations of lucifer, administering heaven, and hoping cthulu doesn't eat everyone. The problem with number of worshippers being directly proportional to a god's powers is that then Kaea and Psid become even more powerful than god himself. Worship could be an energy on which they must feed, or perhaps just a way of spreading their influence.

I think I'm with Steve on this. I'd rather worshipper provide an army, servants and maybe some priests to perform rituals the god wants performed (an example might be a sorcerer god with a ritual-granted supernatural power requiring a ritual to be regularly performed by others). But I don't think faith should grant power as a universal rule. If we really want empowered-by-faith gods we could introduce a species of xenoform that is empowered by the psychic energy of worship.

Secondly, I think we're suffering from a large disconnect in how people are viewing the fae.

1. Weird, non-PC suitable beings with a deeply alien view of the world and a lot of power(generally in the form of Illusions). Sociopaths with no empathy who find humans amusing rather than sympathetic. What I'd call Celtic model elves. Inspired largely by Midsummer Night's Dream, Pratchett's elvs and Labyrinth. (My use of elves)
2. Less weird, more human-scaled, PC-suitable beings. What I'd call Norse model elves. (Rob's use of elves, as I see it, though Rob can voice his own views)

I'm aware that Rob feels that the fae concept is big enough for both of these, but I think I disagree. I'd appreciate the thoughts of others.

You seem to be talking about Elves as they appear in The Hobbit, and Elves as they appear in Lord of The Rings. Or, Wood Elves vs High Elves. Basicly. Wood Elves like to trick peaple into wandering into there woods and eating there cakes and being there slaves forever, wereas High Elves are far more interested in studying tomes, fighting bad guys and occasionally helping out humanity. Also liveing "Accross the sea". If Tolkien and Warhammer can have both, I am inclined to think we can too.
I think I have to go with 1. here. Fae should be too alien to be playable, though we might have to make an exception for S&S, however they will adopt forms that humans, or whatnot, can relate to when they want to interact.
Fae by design are supposed to be capable of being anywhere in the spectrum between humanity and alien…ity. Examples already exist. Weisälfr and Alfr are the current primary examples of fae whose cognitive process is similar to humans and different culturally, whereas on the other end we have things like the Melusine and Nixie who act strangely and have their own agendas that we wouldn't really understand. In the middle of those we have the gobele and svartalfr who are somewhat similar to humans, but have little humanity. I believe that we have talked about fae coming from different worlds - either fae worlds of different dimensional clefts - having different outlooks in this respect.
Do we Realy need to codify a bunch of races of things that might never get used? One of the things putting me off being more contributeing to HCW at the moment is the ever expanding number of random xenoforms I have to keep up with. Theres a lot of… baggage at the moment that seems to have not a lot to do with anything in perticular, I far prefared the model of. There are lots of Dimentions, if a PC or a GM wants to make a race to be used in a game they can… and THEN that race can be fluffed out later, or not. I… I dont know, I dont want to stop anyone haveing fun by coeming up with random races, but it seems to make things.. cluttered. When I first thaught of fae in the Huniverse, my feelings were along the lines of what Bens seemed to be, that is a very sort of Celtic, Baby stealing, hang cold iron over the doorway to keep the fairy folk out kind of fae. Much like is portraed in 7th Sea, for example. Now, that sort of folklore dosent so much have human-like-elf creatures at all, but they get added to give peaple something to interact with (and shoot at) and you arrive at something that comes out much like Warhammer/Tolkiens Wood Elves. Or at least. Thats the way I see it. Now, reading from what Ben said, I thaught that you (Rob) wanted to add the typical other side to that coin in terms of "High" Elves, Elves that are basicly fast gracefull humans that are quite good with bows, have long hair and enjoy battlering evil… I could get behind that, I dont think its needed… because I think the hughniverce is a more interesting place without -any- "Agents of Good". But now what it seems you want to do, or, in your mind Have allready Done, is use Fae as a kind of blanket term for a a whole manajary of diffrent creatures. We do not need this. Xenoforms allready do this job, in terms of "Letting players invent a race". I would rather keep fae as the sort of Ghosts in the Machine peace of background to the universe that they started out as.
Alfr totally aren't like that, they have their own agenda. Some are goons of various gods (with their conflicting agendas) and some do their own things. None simply go and fight evil, and I don't know where you're getting the idea that they are tolkien-based from. They are based on Norse mythology only.
Ben should weigh in on this but I thought fae were supposed to be really alien and ethereal (and not xenoform-alien but of-a-completely-different-nature-and-substance-alien), only ever "humanoid" as an illusion to achieve some form of interaction with material beings. Perhaps we are getting a little caught up with actual mythology and missing what Hughniverse fae were actually meant to be. What I thought was happening with the fae was that they were really alien but had an elaborate front, or GUI, to interact with mankind, this front being Norse, or Celtic or what have you, mythology. Kinda like how the Q Continuum appears to non-Q, if you'll permit me to use a Star Trek analogy.
My original intention was indeed to have the fae as totally alien to the universe (not-made-by-God alien) and wrapping themselves in semi-real illusions to interact with the universe. I have since used them (in my 2059 game) as more phyiscal, though still Without, beings(they were dirty, pointy-eared beings dressed in rotting leaves behind the glamour). They were still vain, vicious sociopaths with no real understanding of humanity.

Way back, I kind of had the idea of two vague groups; True Fae and their servants. True Fae being alien intelligences from beyond the universe wrapped in glamour, their servants being made purely of glamour and being both less smart and less powerful. Now I understand the "alien intelligence from beyond the universe" part is not particularly popular, but how to people feel about having fae as "the ghost in the machine" wrapped in a body of glamour? I may need to have the "ghost in the machine" idea explained to me. It's been explained to me once, but that was in the Ship…..